I am writing to inform you that I think we need a break from each other. I've tried to make this relationship work for the sake of the girls. They seem to love you, however I really think it is because a lot of their friends go there and the fact that the Children's
I know this might seem sudden, but I've been a seething mess for a while now. And what you did yesterday was unforgivable. It is time. But I want to let you know what I've been thinking, perhaps this break will give us both time to reflect and change our ways...
Here's the thing, there is a powerful minority in this place calling the shots. And the shots are wrong. There is a spirit of fear and need for control present in this place and it is crippling the impact this church could have on this community! I know that this "issue" of women in leadership is what you think is a big deal, but the bigger issue is the lack of trust in the leadership.
Let's take a moment and review the issue before us, Women in Leadership. Now, I know that the 'minority' have pulled out their Strong's Concordance to make their point. Great! Not an accurate tool to extrapolate the Hebrew and Greek of the original text...but who cares??!!? You were MAKING A POINT. I digress. Here is where the rubber meets the road for me. If you (minority) feel that only men should be in leadership and that their decisions are sound and true, then there is a problem. Do you see it? Shall I elaborate? OK, then. If these men, who YOU elected to stand as deacons, trusting their wisdom and faith, come before you with a proposal that they have spent 4 years studying, praying and agonizing about, should you not then TRUST THEM?
You cannot have your cake and eat it too. If you only want men (which is the current model here), then you should be submitting to them and their decisions. The fact that they came to you for a vote was a show of good faith. Not because they had too, they already had your vote of confidence in them. No, they did it for the sake of a transparent process, they did it for integrity. And what did you do? You voted them down. You basically told them to kiss your ass. You are in charge here.
Guess what? You won. But did you really? 4 good men (correction: 3 men, 1 woman and the Sunday School Coordinator) resigned from the board today. Our pastors may or may not be considering the same. Families are leaving because of it, us included most likely. Not that it will matter. Because you W.O.N.
So here is my request minority people. Can you now come to church happy? Can you finally smile and stop talking behind everyone's back? Can you welcome the strangers in our midst? Can you love them well? Can you take up the slack of those who are leaving in despair?
Good luck with that.
Regretfully,
Mamabear
23 comments:
Hmm. Churches run by fear. Seems to be a common theme lately, and I'm not so happy with the results. I'm sorry to hear this, Nadia.
Darn it. I hate it when people go and fail at being a church together. People wreck everything. I bet Jesus and the Spirit are hanging out in the rec room saying, "Wait til Dad hears about this! I don't know why He bothers. Why *we* bother..."
Funny though, that the bible says over and over again how much Jesus loves the church, like his own bride. Jesus loves this crazy, f&cked up group of people as much as he loves the rest of us. Or so He says. I'm hoping to find out that part was kind of sarcastic.
I'm not sure what Jesus has to say to you right now, but if you find out, let me know.
WOW! So sorry to here about this. It's hard when churches start to disagree over these issues, especially when it's just a few who keep winning "the battle." Keep your integrity and stay true to what is sound and Biblical!!
Leaving a church isn't always the best answer, but when "traditions" cause the church to become stagnant and forego the positive, growing change that God so desires for His children, then I don't think it's wrong to find a more healthy, growing body to be part of.
PRAY, have His peace in this decision and be sure that God isn't calling you to stay in your church and be the "voice" it so needs to wake itself up! ;)
God is a God of reformation - constantly changing, improving and growing! We just have to be willing to follow HIS lead!!
Praying for you and your church family
Here is the thing, church is messy. And I kinda like it that way, as long as the spirit behind the messiness is one of grace and a willingness to work through stuff together. I personally enjoy having friends with a variety of perspectives on faith. It makes conversation interesting and challenging. Some of my good friends are VERY conservative and I value their thoughts just as much as I value my own. Nothing is more boring than when you all agree on everything!
However, I think when factions choose to disagree in a way that becomes character assassination or creates a spirit of "unwelcomeness" (my made up word), then what is the point of church? You cannot invite others into it because it is poisonous.
We did feel like we were at this church for a reason, perhaps to give a face to the idea of young leadership and the giftedness of women. But the reality is that there are some wounded folks there, who by the very nature of their wounds, seek to wound others.
So I'm not sure where to go from here. I think we will visit other churches, we may start a casual gathering at our home...we are still discerning.
All I know is that I'm grieving for this church. I can only trust that God will make good of this mess...but I'm not sure that we can be part of it.
So true! It all starts from within, eh? I'll have to let Santos read this when he gets home from work.....
When the body works as a whole unit, each one doing their part, the body functions well and grows. One part that is dead or not functioning well makes the whole body ache and move slowly.
I know there is no perfect church out there, but when everyone works together and builds each other up, church works! There will always be disagreements, but it's the dealings of those disagreements that define how your church body really is inside.
We are part of a church because of God's salvation in our lives and the grace that goes along with it! Isn't that supposed to make us excited and happy and want to share it with those around us?
The doors of church need to be opened and unlocked, welcoming everyone in. Once we become a "club" of believers, it's hard to let others in, no matter how good your intentions are!
www.simplechurches.ca
Do you attend one of these A?
Nope, but my next door neighbours lead one. I'm not on board with all their theology but if I made that a requirement, I'd never be part of a church. I love Jolie & Andy though and I know they love Jesus so if you ever want to talk about how and why they left Big Church for simple church, they'd be good starts. I like how they talk about church: not a place to go, but a group of people. That seems right.
We don't do a lot of church these days - naps won over Sunday morning attendence for a lot of the last 3 years, and now sailing and coffees togethers win. But when we do, we are CapChurchers and that has been a good home for us for a long while. We miss our homegroup though - that was our Church for a long time too. Hopefully we'll get two or three gathered more regularly again soon...
Hi - just my thoughts -
Men and women were created different - with different strengths. I respect that my husband is the head of our house and that Christ is the head of the Church. To have men as the senior Pastor and Board is similar to the head of one's house.
I know that there are many many Godly capable women and there is no clear answer in black and white.
In proverbs it says that it is to your glory to overlook an offence.
I have some great repentance sheets that I use to aid me in my walk with God, and it seems that both sides of the issue could use some of the questions....based on Mathew 6:12-14 Is there anyone against whom you hold a grudge? Anyone you haven't forgiven? Anyone you do not love? Are there any misunderstandings that you are unwilling to forget? Is there any person against whom you are harbouring bitterness, resentment, or jealousy? Anyone you dislike to hear praised or well spoken of? Do you allow anything to justify a wrong attitude toward another?
In reading these questions, as you are convicted of sin, confess it at once to God, be willing to make it right and then you can claim cleansing and forgiveness "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. "1 John 1:9
No matter what others do or not do, Christian, Leave nothing undone on your part.
Dear Anonymous,
I am happy to engage your thoughts when you decide to let me know who you are.
Seems only fair that way.
Nadia, you are the picture of restraint. I'll probably be shown up as the heathen I am when it turns out Anonymous is right, but I'm not sure that Right is a Kingdom value. I'm certain self-righteousness isn't. And I'll exercise my spirit-given self-control by not pointing out the lunacy of the "men are heads" point - I don't have enough learning under my belt but I'm pretty sure Jesus thinks a lot of folk misunderstood what he meant.
Stopping. Stopping.
Never mind thoughts on leadership - What is important is our walk with Christ and our relationship with others. Forgivness and repentance from the minority and majority will heal the church family.
Dear Anonymous,
Again, I value your thoughts, but would rather have open and honest dialouge. I believe that most of the trouble in church is our unwillingness to say what we believe and be willing to hear what others believe. Instead we take postures of defense and/or attack, instead of listening and hearing.
I am blessed with friends with a wide, diverse ways of looking at faith. I believe that we bless each other when we feel safe enough to share our views, knowing that though the other may not agree, we both have something of value to share.
So, Anonymous..unveil your true self, so we can begin the conversation. If you have the advantage of knowing me, then send me a private message at least.
Peace.
Dear ACJ
Why is it "Lunacy" to call Christ the head or a a man the head of the house?
What did Jesus mean then?
Yeah ACJ...jump into the fray!
Erik, I believe that Christ is the head of the church...no doubt. And He loves the church beyond our comprehension..for sure.
Folks, I think it is time for a follow up post or two. Look for one tonight or tomorrow and another after Sunday's service!
Eric & Nadia - to be clear, it is not lunacy to call Christ the head. The lunacy is misunderstanding what Paul wrote about church leadership and men and women and believing that it only "right" model is men leading women.
Women were leaders in the early church, Jesus loved women and counted them among his closest friends, giving them positions of leadership in his circle - it was actually one of the things that made him stand out from other spiritual leaders in his time, the inclusion of women in his ministry.
But again, my learning is limited so I won't go further and commit to print something that might be shown to be inaccurate. I will stick to Men Only In Leadership is Lunacy though. I may even print a bumper sticker.
ACJ
ACJ, I agree with you 100%. My point to Erik was to clarify that was what YOU were saying. (Christ = Head of church)
Jesus didn't talk about men in leadership, Paul did.
Oh..my next post is brewing. Can't wait!
I would like to reiterate Nadia's comment about "reveal yourself" I would like to know what ACJ stands for?
I would like someone to explain to me what the culture of the time would have to do with the phrase in 1 Cor 11:3 below...
"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." 1 Cor 11:3
First we know that God's word never changes period. So how do we change what was written in 1 Corinthians?
Later on Paul also says that man is not independent of woman and woman is not independent of man.
In the home the husband and wife work together as a team but every team needs a captain and this, as far as my house is concerned is the man. Decisions are never made to spite one or the other but as a team and in the best interest of the house. But again every team needs a leader and someone that takes the responsibility of the decisions made. Just as in a company the CEO takes input from his VP's but to the Board of Director's he is ultimately responsible.
Anyways 2 cents from me.
EAG
What I stand for politically? or what my initials stand for? I thought initials were cool...
See, using one verse is always a bit confusing, right? If you are going to take that literally to mean that men should be in charge of everything including families and churches, then I gather if you are a man, you have never prayed with a hat on, and if you're a woman, you've either kept your head covered or shaved your head (reading the following verses).
I for one have an uncovered, unshorn head and have participated as a leader and teacher in my community of faith. Paul may not want to sit through my sermons and may have been distracted by my hair &/or woman-ness but he'd be one of the few.
If it turns out Paul was right and women should be only listeners and followers, I'll be shocked. But since being right isn't really the point of following Jesus, I'm not going to worry too much about it. I'm doing my best to love God and love people. I don't think much else matters. At least, that's what Jesus said (Mark 12:28 - 31).
Churches themself are confusing and can be destructive and turn outsider off.
OK, relax people. Often bloggers use pseudonyms to write their blog. I do. The only reason I've now attached a picture to my blog is because I've been "outed" on this blog by others.
With the exception of Anon...I know everyone who comments here. I have friends around the world who read and comment. So unless I am worried about, don't you worry about it...
More food for thought... have a read here and particularly the last entry on the first page.
http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-120.0.html
Hey Folks
There is a new post over at my other blog..the one I'm supposed to be writing on about faith.
http://trustmypath.blogspot.com/2010/06/follow-up-to-open-letter-to-church-x.html
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